Jan 26 2008

Last night, SLUG’s monthly meet­ing played host to four rep­res­ent­at­ives from Microsoft:

  • Sarah Bond, Plat­form Strategy Man­ager. Sarah was present to talk about Microsoft’s cur­rent pos­i­tion with OOXML, espe­cially with regards to the inter­op­er­ab­il­ity with Linux.

  • Amit Pawer, National Tech­no­logy Spe­cial­ist. He spe­cial­ises in Win­dows Server technologies.

  • Alistair Speirs, Tech­no­logy Spe­cial­ist — Office. His back­ground is in Java and .NET development.

  • Rose­mary Stark, Product Man­ager, Win­dows Server and Infra­struc­ture Products.

This unsur­pris­ingly caused much con­sterna­tion and con­tro­versy within the Aus­tralian FOSS com­munity in the weeks lead­ing up to the event, and I (being its organ­iser, and hence the tar­get of much vit­riol) ended up spend­ing much time gauging and respond­ing to the opin­ions and ideas raised.

We wanted this to be an open community-​​led Q&A ses­sion, and to their credit Microsoft were obli­ging. Admit­tedly, I would have saved much san­ity and hours of work if people had pos­ted to the wiki as asked, but hav­ing to tran­scribe from the mail­ing lists to the wiki allowed me to think more about the ques­tions and how they should be worded and ordered. I need no reminder of Microsoft’s trans­gres­sions, but I made sure to keep IBM in mind (as a com­pany that was once con­sidered an ana­thema to soft­ware free­dom but has now largely reformed) and take an optim­istic approach.

Pia was of great help here (as always!). With so many ques­tions and only an hour and a half in which to ask them, we decided to cull the non-​​constructive, accus­at­ive and just plain trolling ques­tions. By the end, Pia had com­piled a list that was fairly encom­passing of the major issues con­cern­ing sup­port­ers of com­pet­i­tion, tech­no­logy and freedom.

As I arrived at the venue, I found that our guests had beaten me and were act­ively help­ing to get the fur­niture into place. This allowed us to get bet­ter acquain­ted before the meet­ing. It was clear (and they openly admit­ted) that they had been fol­low­ing our open dis­cus­sion pro­cess on mail­ing lists and the SLUG wiki. Really, they would have been daft not to do so :)

I handled the intro­duc­tion, then turn­ing the micro­phone over to our guests to intro­duce them­selves. Sarah Bond launched into a present­a­tion on OOXML, in the pro­cess answer­ing sev­eral of the ques­tions we had on the wiki. I left Pia to offi­ci­ate most of the meet­ing, but I chimed in on occa­sion with both poin­ted and irrev­er­ent ques­tions and com­ments that were not on the list.

We will be releas­ing the video of the meet­ing as soon as we are able, so I shan’t explain its con­tents too much. Some inter­est­ing points though:

  • In the list of rules for the meet­ing, I put ‘Ask­ing “Why do you eat babies?” doesn’t help any­one.’ I ini­tially felt bad when I met Sarah and real­ised that she is preg­nant! She was a good sport about it though, and we all had a good laugh :)
  • In her present­a­tion, Sarah men­tioned that Microsoft will be releas­ing the specs to their bin­ary Office file formats in mid-​​February (UPDATE: it’s con­firmed!). I’m still not sure if I heard this one right (it’s a lot to swal­low!), so if someone can con­firm this I’d appre­ci­ate it. They made no bones about this being part of their drive to pro­mote OOXML acceptance.
  • Not new, but news to us, is the fact that Win­dows 2003 has a DRM infra­struc­ture which they call RMS, short for Rights Man­age­ment Ser­vices. I did cheekily ask them if the name was delib­er­ate, and their attempts to ser­i­ously and politely address the ques­tion was price­less :)

Like with any other SLUG meet­ing, we went out for Chinese food after­wards. Three of our guests joined us (it’s a shame that Sarah couldn’t come, but being preg­nant isn’t easy). Did we have din­ner with the Devil? It cer­tainly didn’t feel that way. Once we put our dif­fer­ences aside, we real­ised that we have an awful lot in com­mon. We are all geeks at heart, and some of the MS people have and con­tinue to dabble in Unix and FOSS tech­no­lo­gies such as Python.

Were we suc­cess­ful? It depends on how you look at it. From my per­spect­ive of try­ing to build trust and under­stand­ing, without dwell­ing too much on (but cer­tainly not ignor­ing) the past, I think so. Ask­ing loaded ques­tions and mak­ing our guests feel uncom­fort­able might have brought some short-​​term sat­is­fac­tion to some of us, but would it have achieved any­thing? There were some inap­pro­pri­ate com­ments from the audi­ence going in both dir­ec­tions (one of the loudest people actu­ally seemed to be pro-​​Microsoft), but those people were eas­ily out­numbered by the more sens­ible major­ity. My ori­ginal fears of the crowd devolving into a sense­less rabble dis­sip­ated rap­idly, and I am very pleased and proud of our com­munity for that.

I was ini­tially dis­ap­poin­ted by our turn out, but that feel­ing changed as the meet­ing pro­gressed. Due to it being Janu­ary, linux​.conf​.au being just around the corner (which siphoned a lot of our best and bright­est) and the sens­it­ive nature of the sub­ject mat­ter, we had a crowd that was smal­ler than expec­ted, but felt more con­ver­sa­tional and manageable.

If you were at the meet­ing, please let me know what you thought of it by post­ing a com­ment.

Sarah will be speak­ing again at LUV on Feb­ru­ary 5. If you’re in Mel­bourne for linux​.conf​.au, it might be worth extend­ing your trip by a few days to see it. I would also sug­gest that you take inspir­a­tion from the list of ques­tions that we have com­piled. If our video is out by then, watch it to avoid repeat­ing the ques­tions that we’ve already asked (or pose follow-​​up questions).

My warmest thanks go to:

  • the rest of the SLUG Com­mit­tee (Lind­say Holm­wood, Silvia Pfeif­fer, Matt Moor, Ken Wilson, John Ferlito and James Dumay), for their sup­port throughout
  • Pia Waugh
  • Anna, Matt and every­one who helped with set­ting up, pack­ing up, record­ing and so on
  • our guests from Microsoft, for being such good sports
  • and of course, our community

P.S. Happy Inva­sion Day to Aus­trali­ans, and happy Anti-​​Invasion Day to Indi­ans :)

6 Responses

  1. Robbie Says:

    Thanks for the round up. I would have really liked to have turned up, but I totally for­got about it. Sounds like you guys did really well.

  2. Catfacts Says:

    I to am glad that people did not go crazy at SLUG. I live in the US but as soon as I read the head­line of Microsoft as a Linux con­fer­ence I about laughed. But I am glad that the com­munity showed enough sense to act respect­able. Being child­ish just shows people that linux is a “gar­age exper­i­ment” versus a real product.

  3. DanMan Says:

    Please post the link to the video once you have it avail­able, and make sure the post shows up on Planet Ubuntu.

    I’m curi­ous to hear how MS sidesteps the whole pat­ent­ing and licens­ing for OOXML issue, because hon­estly, nothing’s open until those issues are resolved. And by resolved, I mean pat­ents on xml and bin­ary lay­outs are proven unen­force­able in a higher court of law, and licens­ing for a spec that’s reverse engin­eered is like­wise unenforceable.

  4. Edward G. Howard Says:

    My impres­sion is that Microsoft is des­per­ate to get the OOXML accep­ted. The fact that it has been rejec­ted by ISO, EU, New Zea­l­and and I believe, though not sure: Brazil; is a situ­ation they can­not live with. This is los­ing con­trol, which they have always enjoyed hold­ing and now they see it slip­ping away from them.
    Their assur­ance that OOXML will work “smoothly” with all other apps, is a pie in the sky. Exper­i­ence has shown the incom­pat­ib­il­ity they have exper­i­enced them­selves with their own Office products.
    I per­son­ally feel the meet­ing was very well con­duc­ted and of great interest as it is the first time I see a form of dir­ect com­mu­nic­a­tion from them. I don’t believe them in their integ­rity and feel there is a lot of BS in their state­ments and inform­a­tion. In my view, they are start­ing to get very concerned.

    Hope this assists

    Edward
    Registered Linux User No. 224802
    Founder of AACC Aus­tralian Asso­ci­ated Com­puter Club Inc.

  5. alistair Says:

    Thanks for organ­ising the event, Srid­har — I really enjoyed it. It was a great oppor­tun­ity for us to under­stand the FLOSS com­munity a little bet­ter and you guys to… well at least listen to us for a while :)

    Dan­Man, regard­ing pat­ents and licens­ing, I’m not a law­yer, but you can read the OSP your­self at http://​www​.microsoft​.com/​i​n​t​e​r​o​p​/​o​s​p​/​d​e​f​a​u​l​t​.​m​spx — even Red Hat believes this is a fair approach and the open source com­munity was con­sul­ted and provided feed­back incor­por­ated into the word­ing. OOXML is also has the double whammy of being covered under an addi­tional Cov­en­ant Not to Sue.

    Edward, sorry to hear that you thought our answers were BS. I’m happy to respond to the issues you are hav­ing with incom­pat­ib­il­ity or if any­one else has some *tech­nical ques­tions*. My email address is alistair.speirs@(you know where).com . Please no xbox or zune questions.

    And as to los­ing con­trol… I prefer to think of it as open­ing up. Then again, maybe we are damned if we do, damned if we don’t :)

    Cheers,

    Alistair (pre­vi­ously men­tioned Microsoft guy)

  6. twiter Says:

    This is no less curi­ous than the pre­vi­ous post

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Dancing with the Devil in the pale moonlight / 'Til All Are One by Sridhar Dhanapalan is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike Australia CC BY-SA AU licence.